Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. MSRP: $1,100; springfield-armory.com. I have builds from BCM, Springfield, Noveske and PSA. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. It has a pretty decent barrel and is reliable, so I can recommend it as a solid choice. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. Substantial in some circumstances. The SIG Rattler is something special. But I will check out Sig's new Tread SE to see if I like it Yeah. Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? The PDW with the Hate Brake produced far less flash and noise than a 16-inch-barreled AR equipped with a traditional muzzlebrake. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. The SCW assembly isnt just a short buffer tube; it includes a shortened, proprietary bolt carrier group (BCG), and the buffer and spring protrude into the upper receiver when the bolt is closed. Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). The detent spring was quite heavy and the grip necessary to compress it proved awkward. We set up a three-target array with just 10 feet between each target. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. The Sig Sauer Rattler. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. In late 2019, Springfield released the SAINT Pistol, featuring upgraded components and a retail price of just $849. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. 354K views 4 years ago In this episode of TFBTV, James Reeves reviews the SIG MCX Rattler, a 5.5" PDW in .300BLK that has been purchased for US SOCOM evaluation. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. This muzzle devices primary role is as a muzzle booster for short-barreled guns and PDWs. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. At that time the price on that gun was $1,800. Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. If you havent heard yet, be advised that millions of gun owners may soon be classified as felons if a new Bureau of Alcohol, AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint, SIG Sauer P365XL Spectre P365V001 9mm Luger, Springfield Armory Hellcat Pro HCP9379BOSP 9mm Luger, SHOT 2023: Savage Arms Introduces 1911 Government Model Pistols, 5 Best 9mm Pistols for Concealed Carry in 2023, New Shooters Guide: The Best Gun For Home Defense Isnt a. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] - Bravo Company Buttstock/Pistol Grip/Handguard/Trigger Guard, Nickel Boron GI Trigger, 16 Melonite Barrel w/ 1:8 Twist. I really appreciate the input. The bottom of the grip was removable, and there were fittings to hold popular batteries such as the CR123 or AA inside. Thus, stabilizing subsonic ammo not an issue. Despite the unique internals, the MCXs controls are similar to a standard ARs, which helps because most shooters are familiar with the latters manual of arms. What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The CMMGs single-finger-groove plastic grip is almost extinct because the divider can be uncomfortable and never really seems to be in the right place. a little more then I've ever spent on a gun .So I called it a holy grail gun , which I had many other guns in front of that one . The target to our right showed three A-zone hits and a stray shot in the D-zone, furthest from center. The bottom line? And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. Both suppressors were more effective than, say, a flash suppressor or muzzle brake, but dont expect the gun to be as quiet as those shown in the movies. Sig offers several variants, including pistols with stabilizing braces. The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. But there are a few key reasons why the .30-caliber is better suited for compact ARs. Please give me your thoughts and opinions! Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. But it was visible when we used the Romeo4 red-dot scope. Springfield Armory's $899 Saint, the manufacturer's first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. The stripped-down SBR version of the Rattler weighs in at 5.7 pounds. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . They screwed up, realize it, and took care of the problem. With the shooter lined up on the center target, the object was to land as many hits as possible into the central A-zone of each paper target within a fixed 10-second time limit. To test the SIG MCX Rattler SBR as it might be used on a deployment, I added a few accessories. Here are my personal Pros & Cons of the Saint Victor (FEATURELESS, CA Compliant version) Pros: - Comes with basic flip-up sights ready to go out of box - Full length M-Lok rail slots (TREAD seems to stop 8/10 of the way from the front) - Lighter Cons: - $1400+tax - 2 port MB rather than M400's 3 port (any difference in felt recoil?) I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . I suppose this is due, in part, to how much gas is escaping out the short barrel past the bullet instead of gathering force behind it as it would in a longer barrel. Elwood Shelton is an online content developer for Gun Digest. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . We think mounting accessories in the arc between the top rail and the sides shows a lot of promise for easy control. As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. I really like the trigger in the Saint but the 716i has really good features too. PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. As was the case with the M400 Classic, the front sight was not visible with the Tango4 optical scope mounted. For targeting, I installed a set of Daniel Defenses fixed sights, as well as a Sig Sauer ROMEO3 reflex sight in a tall mount for co-witnessing. With the brace fully extended, the pistol is 23.5-inches in length. .224 Valkyrie Small Precision Rifle Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know, Buyer Beware: Buying 'Bargain' Guns Can Be Risky. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. Bought separately, the SCW (with this H3 buffer) retails for $590. We think this made the trigger a little more user friendly in that there seemed to be more time for the shooter to completely refine a shot. Our best-of-test group measured 0.4 inch across. All remaining rounds produced 1-inch groups. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16" I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. 4. Maximum bullet weight was considered to be 69 grains. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. The Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW brings to mind a saying from Rush Limbaugh: Illustrating absurdity by being absurd. It offers, at least when compared to a standard rifle/carbine, compromised ballistics and a nearly comical appearance, and I havent done executive protection work in quite some time. Their latest addition is the Saint Edge PDW AR pistol, and Im sure it will get its large slice of the AR pie. It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . Im knocking quite a few off my backlist to be sure. Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. We did, however, find the bolt catch to be weak. I got it for around 900 dollars a little over a year ago. SAINT VICTOR PIST 300BLK 30+1. Listen to both sides of the story before you make a decision based on one magazine article. The Judge has been promoted! FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle that's easy to conceal. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. All Guns and Ammo subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. Units specializing in covert, ship-borne or hostage-rescue operations still wanted PDWs with more powerrifle-caliber power to be exact. Starting in 2009, Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC), in cooperation with Remington Defense, took J.D. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. Anybody who has experience with these I would appreciate your opinions. Both companies have reputations for occasional issues with their QC, but Sig certainly produces a higher tier product overall. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It was too short. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. The lower is mil-spec, so an upper change is no different than any other lower. A light, compact AR pistol in the right caliber is easy to carry for long distances . The system is also completely modular like the MPX. If the buttstock was somewhat stubborn to move, it was nevertheless rock solid and more comfortable than most. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. I will not consider another firearm from the Saint line ever again. Subsonic ammunition, as its name suggests, pushes bullets below the speed of sound. The top tier AR-15 rifle offered incredible performance at a very reasonable price. Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. (Notice they fixed this on the new Edge pistol with a longer barrel.) Support gear used:***Splatterburst Targetshttps://amzn.to/2Kera7g***Peltor Sport RangeGuard Hearing Protectionhttps://amzn.to/2LsLUbXThe Springfield XDM Elit. At the rear of the receiver, youll see the Maxim Defense SCW brace. But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. The grip was certainly not traditional, offering a very friendly profile, including a pinkie ledge, at the bottom and an extended backstrap up over the web of the hand. This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. The only complaint is the 300 Blackouts A2 flash hider. Definitely looking at the Sig, but having a hard time forking over that much money. Following the success of its initial collaboration with Vertx, Premier Body Armor announces its continued partnership. During our action tests, we landed four A-zone hits on targets left and center. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. When I saw it, I wanted to hate it, specifically for what it isnt. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. "If I'd known I'd live this long I'd have taken better care of myself.". The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. The new-for-2023 lineup includes ultralight hunting stocks and a VGA 2-pound adjustable vertical-grip stock. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical 19,446 views Mar 13, 2020 370 Dislike Share Save Hammer Striker 79.8K subscribers In this video we compare two tactical offerings: The new. Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. For more information on the SIG MCX Rattler, please visit SigSauer.com. I was really happy . The 2nd pic is from the Sig website.. SIG Sauer has just introduced their latest offering in their tread series of rifles with the introduction of the SIG TREAD Snakebite SE. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. Sig's new SnakeBite . Short and sweet, the 5.5-inch barreled MCX Rattler is as compact as 300 Blackout pistols come. At the gun expo my wife shoot the Orange in 40 cal and she made me shoot it which at the time I wasn't interested in doing , we had two tickets left for ammo so I got in line and lets say after shooting it and hitting metal 10 out 10 I was impressed , I have never shoot any thing as smooth as butter , the gun just was a work of metal and design . The second can was the Dead Air Sandman-K, which is slightly heavier at 12.8 ounces yet only 0.7 inches longer. Privacy Policy. The trigger presented a crisp break at about 7.6 pounds of resistance with barely an ounce or two in variation from shot to shot. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. The Sig Rattler is only available with a 5.5 inch barrel, in 300 Blackout or 5.56mm. This article on theSIG MCX Rattler is from the May/June 2018 issue of Tactical Life magazine. My wife said I'm going to buy me a new gun which one do you think the Blue or Orange . I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. Eventually, ammo manufacturers answered the call, and now dozens offer 300 Blackout loads for a variety of uses. . I'm looking for advice on whether to buy a Sig Sauer MCX or the Springfield Armory Saint (new free float version).